In office hours this week, we discuss which sites need “Terms and Conditions” and how to blog in light of our need for links to our website.
I don’t know about you but I find it hard to keep up with the changes regarding privacy protections and legal notices on websites. This week we talked about whether or not your website needs Terms and Conditions on it.
Would you like to bring your SEO questions to the next Office Hours? Join The Colony and you can! See you there!
David: Welcome to Office Hours for Curious Ants. Today is Wednesday, July 29th, and today we’re here to talk about SEO and what we had for lunch.
Ali: It was delicious.
David: Mine was delicious too. Lavonya, was yours delicious?
Lavonya: Yes. I had Chick-fil-A.
David: Oh. I think you might’ve won.
Ali: Oh, God. I really don’t want to love Chick-fil-A, but it’s just so good.
David: My wife is a vegan, and she loves Chick-fil-A
Ali: It’s just unnaturally delicious.
David: It’s correct.
Before we get started… Lavonya has a great question. But before we talk about Lavonya’s problem, last week, I prompted us to begin today with a success story. It could be something as simple as “I finally did something this week,” but it might be “This is what happened this week.” I challenged myself to this too, so part of me wants to go first, but I don’t want to steal thunders. So, what do you think? Is someone itching to go first? I will lead by example if that’s what needs to happen here.
Ali: I’ll go with the flow, or I can wait. Either way.
David: Ok. Well, if you guys have them, I’d love to hear yours before I tell mine, so which of you would like to go first?
Lavonya: My success story is that I could finally come up with some blog post titles. I also have some more information on terms and conditions that I thought were interesting. I didn’t realize the terms and conditions were a contractual agreement with you and the user. That was one of the things that were in that training I did last week, and also, what was interesting to me was that, if you are in Europe, and if you do not state that your return policy is 14 days or 30 days, then you have a whole year and 14 days to return the item. If your return policy was supposed to be 14 days, and you did not state that you have a whole extra year and 14 days to return the item on your site or in your terms and conditions.
David: Wow, so if you are doing business, an eCommerce store in Europe, you really need to specify your return policy in the terms and conditions.
David: Or you could get stuck getting old stuff returned to you.
Anything else that you learned at the terms and conditions webinar?
Lavonya: I’m looking at my notes. Still, they also mentioned something that your terms and conditions should state, like the dedication of your business, the description of the service, conditions of use, and make sure you say the return policy, and exchange, and termination, and any info related to the methods of payment. Make sure that you put that in your terms and agreements.
David: Did it mention whether or not sites that are not e-commerce needed to have the terms and conditions?
Lavonya: That’s where they said that some sites like blogs or like lawyers’ sites maybe can get away with it. However, you might want to still make sure that you have terms and conditions on there just to be on the safe side in the future.
Lavonya: But definitely make sure that you have terms and conditions, especially when you advise through blogs or some type of service or eCommerce.
David: Ok. Thank you.
Lavonya: You’re welcome.
David: That’s super helpful.
Ali, what’s your success story for the week?
Ali: I have a two-part success story. The first is that I got on logging and set up in Google Search Console, which was super enlightening for us because I really found out that the majority of people who are coming to our site from Google are searching specifically for us, which really shows that we need to adjust to get people who don’t know about us already, to the site, so that was really great. Then, because of that, we basically put together a whole team and had a strategy meeting about what our new social media is going to look like. We have a basic two-pronged plan: one, reaching out to families and reaching out to professionals. We have ideas for videos for YouTube, for templates and how-tos for Pinterest, blog posts for Pinterest or Facebook, like an attack for all the various social media, and the most exciting thing to come out of this is we’re collaborating with local businesses to post how-to videos or helpful videos for families with kids with special needs to help give those local businesses exposure, to us have exposure in the areas those businesses are in, and then, once COVID restrictions are lifted, be able to then host events at those businesses.
Ali: So, we had a really great week putting a lot of things together that are actionable, and now we are starting to delegate those tasks and to proceed with how we’re going to make them, and then produce them and start posting content.
David: That is great. I’m intimidated by both of your success stories. Mine seems very anticlimactic after that. Mine was: I’m working with a client, and they have got a large development team, so sometimes getting the development to do anything is like turning the Titanic. It just takes a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of politics, a lot of begging, sometimes bribery, maybe some tears, only to move something. Well, we implemented, on their blog, a schema for articles and a schema for breadcrumbs. Schema is one of these ways to encode things on the website that is invisible to humans and help search engines understand what this is. Suppose you encode an article in a particular way. In that case, you’re telling Google, “Hey, here’s the article. This is the content in the article,” as opposed to “Here’s the navigation. Here’s this and that”. Well, not only did Google pick us up super fast, like within a couple of days, which is lighting fast for Google, but we could see them start to serve this client up in the Google Discovery graph because now Google could read their articles more clearly and understand the difference between a page and an article. Google Discovery is the latest product from Google. If you’ve ever done a search from your mobile phone, look at your phone and, underneath the search bar, Google is suggesting articles from websites it thinks you are interested in.
Ali: That’s interesting.
David: There’s no way to “optimize” for the “break for it” because Google is saying, “I know you, and I think you’re interested in this article.” For instance, I’ve been learning to play guitar, so I get many guitar articles suggested. Well, what we’re seeing is that, after putting article markup on their blog, they are serving the blog posts to more people as Google Discovery. So, Google is just recommending to people, “Here’s an article we think you’re interested in,” off our blog. Before this, Google was not sharing the blog post. They’ve had all these blog posts for years, but now Google is suggesting these on mobile devices by encoding them with the article markup. I dug some data, and Google Discovery doesn’t really produce a lot for most clients. However, there are so many articles on this website that, even if they’ve got 10% of those served in Google Discovery, that would be a lot of traffic. And, again, in traffic is not itself. We want traffic that produces a goal, but sometimes more traffic has more goals, so we’re excited about that.
That was my success for the week.
Ali: That’s not anticlimactic.
David: I said both your stories were terrific. I thought mine is just some technical… The success is more like getting the development team to move, but it was almost instant results once we did. It was pretty great. It’s sporadic.
So, Lavonya, you came to us with a question about blogging today.
David: Would you like to share your question with us?
Lavonya: Yes. My question is… You come up with the blog titles but, do you write the blog post before or after your backlinks?
David: Ok. Sorry I interrupted you.
Lavonya: No, I was just going to say: If I write my blog post, then I have to go look for backlinks, but how will I know what backlinks to look for if I do it before I write my blog post? If that makes sense.
David: Ok. Are you talking about writing blog posts on your blog or writing your blog posts on other websites?
Lavonya: On my website, if I come up with blog post titles, then I want to maybe reference a site that I got some information from, so… when is the best time to look for backlinks: before or after a blog post?
David: Ok. So, backlinking is a vast topic, and we have to make a couple of caveats whenever we talk about backlinks. What makes Google a superior search engine? Google uses the links to determine which websites are the better websites. It’s not just about the words on the page. It’s about what other websites say about you, so we have to do backlinks if we want Google to consider us an authority. For instance, today, I did a little quick audit on a website great website. Still, they weren’t getting any traffic because nobody was linking to them, so Google didn’t acknowledge that this was a really authority website because no one said “This is an authority website” by linking to it. So, we need to have links on our site. Still, we need to understand… because they are so powerful, there are particular rules on how to generate a backlink, so… Let’s see if I can find… There’s an article on Curious Ants about this. Let me see if I can find it.
Lavonya: Oh, I jumped ahead before the next step? Is that what I did?
David: You know, links are essential, but let’s make sure that, when we do links, we do it in a way that doesn’t get us in trouble with Google.
Alright, so I’m going to share my screen just so we can see where this is. There’s an article on how to tell if the link is helpful or not worth reading. Not all links are created equal, and some links are not beneficial for search ranking, but some can still traffic. And on here, there’s a link to what’s called the Google Links Scheme Guidelines, which is Google’s rules on backlinks to a website, in other words, what is a link that they find acceptable and what is a link for which you can potentially get in trouble with Google. “Trouble with Google” might mean, at best, they ignored the link to your site; at worst, Google could kick you out of the entire Google index if you don’t follow their rules, so we have to understand these rules before we start building links or we might get ourselves in big trouble. Hence, it’s really worth reading through this to make sure you know it. Once you understand the rules, you can then ask yourself, “How do links help my websites? What makes a link helpful?”.
Lavonya: So, can I go ahead and write the blog post first and… I don’t know. I’m trying to figure out how backlinks really work. So, should I be reaching out to whoever owns the site first and say, “This is an article or a blog post that I’ve written that I think will work great with something that they may have on their site”?
Ali: If I may, what we’re doing for backlinks… because basically, the way I understand it, part of getting backlinks is also increasing your authority ranking, so what we are doing is reaching out to top blogs on topics that we are interested in and requesting to do guest blog posts, and we’ve gotten already… Somebody responded and said, “Hey, this is a topic we are looking to be covering. Is this something you can do?” So, we’re doing that blog post for a blog that already has like 50,000 followers to then backlink to our website since we’re the ones that wrote it. Is that correct, Dave?
David: Yeah, so that is one way to get links. I’m going to share another process with you. If we follow the game plan’s order, this would be the last step in the game plan: how to build topically-relevant links to your website. And one of the ways to create a topical link is through guest blogging, so I wrote up a process here on how to do guest blogging, how to find them, and within this are some tips on doing this, so Lavonya, I think there is a couple of assumptions here that you are making that I want to make sure you’re clear about. If you’re publishing something on your blog, that needs to stay on your blog and not get published on other websites.
David: Google does not want to serve up 2 websites of the same content.
My home device has interrupted us.
Ali: My does that, too sometimes.
David: She is listening when we talk about her. We are talking about links, so uh-oh! So, just so you know, if you write and publish something on your website, a possible tactic to get backlinks is to say, “Hey, another website, I wrote about this topic too. If you think it’s good, would your readers want to read it? Would you want to link to it?” That’s a way to get links. That, I think, would be the hard way to get links because you really have to work hard to convince someone to link to you.
Ali: Build a relationship.
David: Yeah. That’s a better way to do it, to build a relationship, so what you could do is say, “Hey, blog: I’ve written about this topic before. Here’s a couple of examples. I would like to write about this topic for your site too. Would you like something unique for your website?” And then it resembles more of the guest blogging strategy, where you are going to a website and, kind of like Ali was saying, you are pitching them that you’d be willing to write. Why would they accept you? Clearly, you will have to show that you have some authority or knowledge on the space, so having stuff on your blog could be a way to prove that you know what you are talking about, right? So, putting it on your blog first, and then writing something unique for someone else, after you show them that you know what you’re talking about, they read your blog, they say, “Oh, this is really good.” So, that would be another way to do it, but if you want to write for other websites to link to you, you probably need to write… I shouldn’t have said “probably.” You need to write unique for them and don’t just replicate what you’ve already written on your site. Now, some advanced techniques are ways to do that, but I still don’t want to get into that at this point. I think it’s just a lot easier just to approach it… Every time you write on another website, make sure it’s unique for that website.
Lavonya: So, I can still write blogs for my website, but at the same time, I can reach out to other bloggers and ask if I can write something unique for their website to link back to my website?
David: Yes. I think the answer to your question is: that’s probably the best way to do this. Start with blogging on your side, build up credibility. At the same time, you do it, and then you can get opportunities on other websites. So, one of the processes is how to write a blog post for the best SEO results. This is just a guideline of what makes a good blog post and how to do it. Noticed the article schema as we talked about? It’s already in there. Lavonya, if you are using the Yoast SEO plugin, you already have automatically added article schema on your website. So, you are ahead of the game. I’d start here by writing blog posts for your site. I’m telling you this for a couple of reasons: one, to build credibility so you can go to other people and say “See? I know what I’m talking about? Wouldn’t you like me to write for you too?”, but also, the blog posts on your website are going to bring in relevant traffic too.
Lavonya: So, as I write blog posts on my site, it’s ok for me to reference links to other sites as long as the same sites link back to me.
David: Yes. Exactly
Ali: You are considering backlinking? To link out to other sites?
Lavonya: Yeah, I think that’s where I got confused because, when I started out, I started out with affiliate marketing. Where I had to add links in a blog. I guess that’s where I got kind of confused when I talked about backlinks, but I think it’s supposed to be the other way around: I reach out to them to link back to me.
David: Some people make an argument that linking out to other authoritative sites from your website builds your authority. Some people attempt to add links to other websites from their blogs. For instance, if you are talking about SEO and link out to Search Engine Land as a blog, some would say that adds credibility. I don’t believe it does. I don’t think it hurts, but it’ll think it does. I would just say, “You can link out where it makes sense, but don’t think that, by linking out to authoritative websites, that somehow that means you get authority because you linked to an authoritative site.” If it’s helpful to your users that they see the article that you are talking about, for instance, so one content strategy might be “I’m going to comment on other bloggers content,” “I’m going to pick a fight and argue about something and, to do that, I’m going to link to them so that my readers can read their article and see what I’m talking about.” When you do that, and that’s totally legit, I, just as a stylistic thing, like to make sure that the links open in new tabs, which you can do in WordPress very quickly by a little checkbox. Still, that way is just so they are on my blog, they go to the other blog, they don’t lose where they were on my blog because that’s where I want them to be. I don’t want them to forget about my blog. If it opens a new tab, they close that tab, and they are still on my blog. Instead, they stay on my blog.
Ali: We’re working on something similar too, in some outbound links, but to sources that are above us, so not linking out to peer businesses, but above. The kind of business we do is run by the BACB, so we can link to that to show “These are the ethical guidelines that cover everyone” or “These are the strategies that cover everyone” so you can see that we’re following that, you can see we’re in line with that, rather than being like “Oh, here’s this other person that doesn’t work for us. Look what…” We don’t want to do that. We want to show like, “Look how great we are, and we’re following all this stuff.” And then we’re increasing a lot of our internal links, too, to try to kind of direct traffic a little bit more on the page into the direction we want it to go because we do have a pretty high bounce rate, so we’re trying to really stop that.
David: Yeah, exactly. Those internal links are also ranking factors.
David: If you are linking to a service page from a blog post, you help your service page rank better, and that’s kind of what you really want to show up in the search results.
Blogging and bounce rate is an interesting conversation because a blog will always have a high bounce rate.
Ali: Yeah. We have high bounce rates in general, even when it’s not a blog post. We have someone who does all our social media posting, so I had her log basically everything she posted in June-July. I’m actually comparing the exact days and times in Google Analytics to see if it actually produced a result, and that’s where we’re kind of re-evaluating. Every time we post something, what’s the goal of this post? Is it to increase brand awareness or to increase traffic flow to the website? Because I think she got sort of misled because Facebook and Instagram have their own “analytics” where there will be like “Oh, look at all this engagement,” and it’s like “Yeah, but what…”. It’s like, just because they viewed it doesn’t really do anything. We want people who are sharing, who are commenting, who are clicking on it, following through, doing something other than just being like, “Oh, look, there’s this post now.” It’s a little misleading, I think, the ranking of statistics.
David: I’m going to defend Anita a little bit, not that you’re insulting Anita, but remember last week Anita talked about how brand awareness is the fair value of social media.
Ali: Oh, yeah. Definitely.
David: So, sometimes someone sees an article on social media and they are aware of your company, that just puts a little reminder in the back of their heads, and that kind of goes back to old-school marketing, old school advertising, where it takes 3-5 exposures to a company to even remember it. Still, that can be really valuable for that effect. The problem is, it’s tough to measure.
Ali: Right. We do employee spotlight posts, and she’s like, “We had a huge engagement, huge views on employee spotlight,” and I’m like, “Yeah, but how many of those people are now?” Because if it’s just our own employees looking at it, then it’s of internal value because it’s a motivation tool. Still, it’s not of importance to the site or the company as a whole, as far as driving new traffic or new brand awareness, because that’s one of our most significant hiccups: people that already know us are searching for us, so we want to expand to people who don’t know us.
David: Yeah. And I’d watch that carefully because what could happen… I have a client. They have many people who work for them, and they have a page for every person who works for them, but sometimes what happens is those people get in the press. I was reading the newspaper a couple of Sundays ago, and I’m just reading it. I see one of my client’s employees is mentioned in the Wall Street Journal. I emailed my client and told him, “Why didn’t you tell me this person was going to be featured in the Wall Street Journal?” He didn’t know, and we didn’t get a link, darn it! But everybody searched for his name, and everybody searched for his name found his page on the website. A few people contacted him for services. Sometimes that can be a payoff. If in your case, you have counselors, those people might be out speaking at groups, they may be at a PTA speaking. They could be out there, kind of drumming up their own business, and if they are successful, you want to know that, right? And you want to let people find them on your website. That could be a good source of leads.
Ali: Also and one of the things I learned on another source is to create almost like a worksheet with a copy and paste so you can respond super quickly and be like, “Yes, we can provide a quote on this topic. These are our credentials…” to try to get more, not just backlinks, but even mentions and different kind of resources.
It’s just so much information.
David: It is. There is a lot to SEO. There is a lot of things going on, and people sometimes think, “I can pay someone a couple hundred bucks a day to do this.” Whatever, it’s a lot of work that is going on.
Lavonya, does that kind of answer your question?
Lavonya: Yeah, I just thought I was getting ahead by writing the blog post first, but it turns out that I’m not. It’s ok to write a blog post first and then reach out to other bloggers to see if I can write something on their sites. Now, if I do that, how would I get traffic back to my site if I guest blog post on somebody else’s site?
David: That’s a great question. So, in the process for guest blogging, it outlines suggestions: we want to try to get a link from their websites to ours when we’re doing the guest blog post. Now, the first couple of times we do this, the best we can do is say, “This is Lavonya’s website. She wrote for us, and we’re going to link to the homepage”. Hey, that’s fine, go take it, but as we build relationships with these people, we might be able to get a link straight to a service page, or we might be able to do some sort of partnership where we work on our report together or something, and we promote… But it’s all about the building; it’s using this not just to get a link and walk away, but using this to build relationships with people. Remember that they are people. That’s the hard part, right? Because many websites are happy to take your content, but they would take content for any old fool who would do it. Obviously, if they accept it from you and anybody else, how good is the content? Now, I’m not diminishing that. Sometimes you got to get started to prove to people that you can write. You’re knowledgeable, so I view this as building a portfolio, a portfolio on your blog that shows you are knowledgeable about your topic and building a portfolio on other websites that you could then pitch. What you do is you pitch up. You start with the lower end, and then, the next… the hard ones are going to be like, “We want to see 5 articles that you’ve written for other websites”. When you are starting off, that’s really tough. Still, if you’ve been doing it for a few months, you already have that. Now you can get a link from a website that a few people can get links because everybody else is just throwing their own websites at anybody, so you really have to invest the time to do it. Still, it can really pay off, and that’s kind of how you do it. You just got to keep pressing, build a portfolio, trade up, build relationships, write for a website, say how you’d be willing to write 5 articles for a website; they might appreciate that, and in appreciating that, they’ve learned to trust you, great, then you can get away. One other thing you could do is build relationships with people. Maybe you reference your articles on your site as a source for an article.
One of the most popular articles on my website is about how to use the Screaming Frog tool to build internal links within your website. This is a little SEO tool that I’m a big fan of. It’s a bit technical, but it’s a great tool. Screaming Frog, I love the name. Now you know where I got Reliable Acorn and Curious Ants. That’s a really popular article, I might say. Well, I can write on other websites and say, “Oh, and by the way, you can use Screaming Frog to build internal links and link to my blog post” because I’m citing myself as a source. Now, in academia, you can’t cite yourself as a source; that’s an improper broach of academic…
Lavonya: You can’t, in an article that you are writing for someone else, but you can reference it to get more information on how to use it and link it to your site?
David: Well, for instance, if I was doing an article, and I have it on Screaming Frog’s internal links, maybe on another website I’ll write an article about underrated SEO tactics: One underrated SEO tactic is this, another underrated SEO tactic is that a third underrated SEO tactic is building internal links. There’s a straightforward way you could add internal links: you use Screaming Frog, and you find them; number four is this. There. I just kind of worked it in. It’s natural; it’s not self-promotional because nobody wants to publish an advertisement on their website. Not everybody will let you do that, but if you are building relationships and know they can trust you. You are not just using them, then you might be able to do something like that. Now you’ve got a link to an article that is really productive.
David: I don’t want to shame anybody, of course by saying that… does that mean I am? I hope not. I noticed we were skipping around a lot in the process. I appreciate that the process is complicated, but I want to make sure you both are aware that not only do I listed the steps in order here…
One way to do topical link building is guest blogging, but before you do that, there’s a lot of other things you need to do.
Lavonya: When I was going through this, I went back, and I was going through your steps, and that’s when I got into the … I didn’t realize I had skipped the Google data solutions I think it’s called. I didn’t know I had missed that. I think I asked you a question about it, but then I figured it out. I was doing keyword research and trying to find keywords, that’s when I was coming up with blog topics, and then I was like, “Ok, well, I’ve got the blog topics, so should I write this first? or do I need to worry about getting backlinks first?”
David: I think your question is excellent and I’m glad you’re there. In one sense, go ahead. Having a blog post is going to help you on your website. My fear would be that you don’t have other things together first before you do that. For instance, what if… and I know you use WordPress, so your website is very easily read by Google, but if you didn’t have a WordPress site and you weren’t sure Google could even read your site, putting a blog post on your website might not even help you if you didn’t do the technical audit review to make sure Google could even read your website. Here’s a thing that I want to make sure you’re both are aware of. I just added this video. There is this spreadsheet I created. All you have to do is click on it, make a copy… This is a little spreadsheet that can help you know where you are in the process to make sure you are not missing anything and understand what to do next. Today we did this; now you know we don’t have to do this until January 29th because we need to repeat this in 6 months. Still, it’s also a friendly reminder, “Don’t forget that, on January 29th, you should do this again”. I’ve designed this to help you have a place to keep track of all the steps, the process… It does a couple of things: number one, it makes sure you don’t overlook something; two, sometimes we have to answer for the work we’ve done, to our boss or clients. This could be one place for which you could say “Here’s what I’ve done for you recently,” and you have a record of it to show them, but for instance, two of these tasks are things you should probably do every week, and what I’d like to do is… I just sort these, and I know the top things are the things I need to do first. I don’t have to worry about this thing anymore until January 29th, so I can kind of keep that out of mind, but I know the next thing I need to do is to set up and verify my Google Analytics Goals, so I just keep doing the things… I put notes in here. There are links straight to the process if I need to get to it. I put this together because I’m hoping it helps you keep track of all the moving pieces to overlook something. You don’t want the cart to get ahead of the horse and end up doing something that isn’t in its most effective order, so I’m offering this to you as a hopeful help. Still, you are both intelligent and capable individuals who know what’s going on, so you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to.
Ali: Where is that located?
David: Let me show the screen again. When you log in to Curious Ants, you end up on a “How do I get started” page. The URL will be membership account. There’s a link that says “Begin your SEO campaign here,” which takes you to the “How to do Search Engine Optimization” page. Here are the steps. This video explains how to use this sheet, so you just have to click on that sheet underneath the video, and you can create a copy of the sheet which means only you get to see the sheet. No one else gets to see it because you’ve made your own copy of it. I just hope that helps make sure you don’t overlook something.
For instance, blogging is really valuable. I wish everyone was blogging more often. If you only do one thing to help your SEO, blogging will help your SEO, but if you don’t have your goals set up and measured, you can blog, but is it helping your SEO? You don’t know because you’re not counting the goal, so make sure your goals are set up. Then you first need to set up Google Analytics and things like that, so this is just making sure that, before you do the exciting SEO things, like blogging and optimizing content, you’re not setting yourself up for thinking you’re successful because you’ve been blogging for 6 months, and then find out the blog posts haven’t been generating new customers because you didn’t set up goals to measure whether new customers are coming in or not. That’s a really disappointing place to be in. I say this as someone who has done this before. You just jump right in; you start doing, and next thing you know… Is it working? The client asks, “That’s great, we’re writing 10 blog posts a month. That’s exciting. Is it getting me more business?” but we don’t know because we didn’t do the earlier stuff, which is to make sure we’re tracking whether we’re getting customers or not, so I’m trying to make this easy because going through this page with the list of processes is not always the easiest because then you have to remember. Still, the spreadsheet here will help you remember. Does that make sense?
David: Wow. Oh, I need to get rolling. Any last-minute questions before we tie up through this week?
Ali: I don’t think so.
David: Lavonya, are you all set on blogging and guest blogging and all that?
Lavonya: Yes. I’m going to go back to the list again, and I’m going to make sure I didn’t skip anything else, but yeah, I think I’m ok.
David: Ok. I bet you most of the things on that list, Lavonya, are already taken care of, but go ahead and check and see if there’s anything that you’ve missed.
David: Well, thank you both for your time today.
Ali: Thank you.
David: It’s good to see you and good to hear what you had for lunch. I hope you both have an even better dinner.
Ali: Thank you, guys.
Lavonya: Thank you
David: Thank you.
Lavonya: Bye, bye.